Jesse Watters, Dana Perino encourage people to get vaccinated – Fox News

5May 2021

This is a rush transcript from “The Five,” May 5, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everybody. I’m Jesse Watters along with Juan Williams, Dana Perino, Greg Gutfeld and Kennedy. It’s 5 o’clock in New York City and this is THE FIVE.

Big tech trying to permanently silence conservatives in America and control what you are allowed to see and hear, Republicans are furious, threatening retaliation after Facebook’s oversight board upheld its indefinite ban on former President Trump. They are warning, if it can happen to him it can happen to anybody. But this story is much bigger than just one person, it’s about tech oligarchs manipulating the political conversation and debate. Republicans say it’s time to take action.


MARK MEADOWS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: It’s a sad day for America. It’s a sad day for Facebook because I can tell you, a number of members of Congress are now looking at, do they break up Facebook?

REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): We can’t allow a corporation to do something that we don’t allow the United States government to do. And it’s just — it’s contrary to our American values.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Congress needs to get up off its ice cold, lazy butts and face this issue head on. And both Democrats and Republicans understand something is wrong.


WATTERS: The battle over big tech bias doesn’t end there. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has been working on a bill that would fine social media companies for banning political candidates. And Senator Josh Hawley is leading the charge to hold big tech accountable.


GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I think big tech is just very arrogant. You are someone that’s been censored unfairly or the platform, we are giving you the ability to sue big tech yourself.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): What we need is real competition, why do these companies get by with ignoring 75 million Americans and trying to censor them? It’s because I don’t have any real competition and this is what we have monopoly laws for. This is what it is for. It’s to open up space for competition.


WATTERS: OK, let’s begin with Greg Gutfeld who has his glasses on, so I expect a very intellectual conversation. Greg, what was your reaction when you saw that they have held it and they kicked it back to Facebook?

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: I was deeply distraught, Jesse. I went home and I cried.


GUTFELD: You know, I’m not surprised.

WATTERS: You did.

GUTFELD: Look, I mean, you’re going to get the argument — the predictable argument that this is a private company, so it’s not a speech issue. But in that argument you realize that ship has already sailed, we’re not — we understand it. This isn’t about going up to a street corner and shouting, all right?

Social media platforms are so huge that when you get kicked off it, it’s not like you can go start one — start a new one up in your backyard. That would be like starting a phone company in the 1990s or 1980s because they won’t let you use the telephone. So I think the people that are OK with this, it’s pure partisanship. They are not conservatives, so this isn’t a problem. It’s like when people laugh about when you talk about media bias or you talk about bias in the academia or you talk about bias in the entertainment industry.

The left, the Democrats and the people in the press, they don’t care because it doesn’t affect them. But one day, it will affect them when they find out that they’re not left-wing enough. And I’m telling you, these social media platforms in places like Google, they do control the narrative.

If you ever try to search for a story that you are looking for specifically that had a conservative idea in it, good luck, because the algorithms do not help you. And also I do think that — I do think Twitter really suffers from not having somebody like Trump on there. It’s like Van Halen losing David Lee Roth, or you know, maybe it’s more like the Sugarcubes when Bjork left and the band just collapsed.

There’s nothing interesting on Twitter anymore. We have a Trump-sized hole we need to fill. And I don’t necessarily believe from the desk of Donald Trump is the right way to do it, because it feels like a memo from your uncle, whereas he was America’s cab driver when he was on Twitter. It was like this on-going assessment of your daily life that I actually kind of miss.

WATTERS: And I wonder if you Googled from the desk of Donald Trump, you have to search really, really hard for that to pop-up.


WATTERS: Dana Perino–


WATTERS: You’re always good with predictions. So the oversight committee sent it back, Zuckerberg is going to have to figure this out, and they didn’t really like the indefinite ban. But where do we go from here? What’s going to happen next?

PERINO: We are kind of in status quo, right? Well, they said uphold the band, but instead now, they are back — you know, go back and they say, well, you know, in your rules it doesn’t say you can have an indefinite ban. You either have to either do it or not. And so, we are kind of right where we were compared to, for example, Twitter, which just said ban, done. There is no oversight for it.


PERINO: There is no discussion about it. And so, I think when it comes to Washington, D.C., what will it do? You know, Greg brings up the phone company, and I think it’s a really good point. If you can’t just cut off somebody’s phone service because you don’t like what they have to say, or even if you are crank calling people like we know somebody on this panel used to do all the time after school — and I try to myself, I wasn’t a very at it.

But you can’t do that, but the way it’s set up right now under the law, they are not considered a utility. Could they be? I mean, is at the direction to go? Because, actually, you could probably get to some bipartisan consensus. Bernie Sanders at one point said he didn’t think this policy was a good one. He could see the principal danger here, so it’s possible you could do that. In the meantime, this is what’s going to happen, tons of fund-raising from both sides.


PERINO: Republicans and Democrats figuring out a way to try to get people to donate money and still, I would imagine, a year from now, nothing has changed.

WATTERS: Kennedy, do you agree? You think both parties are going to beat this drum and then, whenever either one of them gets any power, they do nothing about it?

LISA KENNEDY MONTGOMERY, FOX NEWS HOST: It will be interesting to see because this is one of the few issues where there actually is a great deal of bipartisan crossover.


MONTGOMERY: And I would be curious to see, I don’t like I would like it, but I’d be curious to see what Senators Josh Hawley and Elizabeth Warren would come up with–

PERINO: Right.

MONTGOMERY: — if they got together to talk about their big tech grievances because I don’t think they are too far apart from each other. They both talked about breaking up these companies. And you know, to Gregg’s point, remember when Google was threatening to essentially de- platform the federalists?


MONTGOMERY: So, they would no longer be able to advertise through Google platforms, and that would’ve killed their business. And Facebook, I think this oversight board is just a way for Mark Zuckerberg to not have to take responsibility, so he’s just delegating it to some other faceless blob, so they don’t really do anything.

And I also remember when Dana went to the Facebook campus because for a while, they were paying lip service to conservatives. They acknowledged that conservatives were being frozen out of at least their platform and obviously that — you know, that was just for show. That is not happening anymore. So if you are looking at the Florida model, maybe you have to end qualified immunity for big tech companies.

WATTERS: Yeah, you mentioned the oversight board at Facebook. I checked into it, looked at who they staffed it with, former editor of the Guardian, former law clerk for Justice Stevens, former Prime Minister of Sweden, social Democrat, Pakistani lawyer, Kenyan lawyer, Indonesian journalist, former judge at the European Court of Human Rights. I’m not disparaging these people, I just look that they’re a little biased. But, Juan, just by that glance, I wouldn’t call that MAGA country, would you?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST: I didn’t know that was the measure of it. I thought they wanted somebody who knew something about the industry, Jesse, and people who could come to — have the basis, the experience to reach a logical decision. I thought it was you know a pretty good decision.

Let me just comfort all of you. This is not about conservatives. Not at all, this is about the truth. You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater. And if you’re President of the United States, you can’t yell fraud and say oh, this is fraud because I lost an election when in fact you lost the election.

WILLIAMS: Yes, you can. You can do that.


GUTFELD: You are wrong, Juan, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Let me tell you why can’t say it.

GUTFELD: Tell us.

WILLLIAMS: Let me tell you why people get sanctioned. Not conservatives, but Donald Trump, because he said it. He perpetrated a lie that led to violence. That’s what happened.

GUTFELD: That is your opinion, Juan.

WILLIAMS: That’s what happened with Facebook.

GUTFELD: That’s your opinion.

WILLLIAMS: I am telling you–

GUTFELD: We could cut that off. We operated under your assumptions. We could do the same thing to you.

WILLLIAMS: Let me just say something, Greg. If you ask Twitter, and you and Facebook, what they will tell you is, the fact that he lied and it created violence, the insurrection of the Capitol was what prompted them to say, we need to sanction Donald Trump. Not conservatives.

GUTFELD: That was you, Juan. We could say that your opinions lead to violence, too.

WILLLIAMS: No. Listen.

GUTFELD: That’s an opinion.

WILLIAMS: That is not true.

GUTFELD: Oh, it’s not true?

WILLLIAMS: It’s not about opinion. It’s about a fact that what happened on January 6th was directly tied–

MONTGOMERY: What about what has been happening in Portland for 10 months?

WILLIAMS: The truth is — well, hang on, guys. Let me have a shot.

MONTGOMERY: You had a shot.

WILLLIAMS: The truth is not conservatives, it is not Republicans — truth is not about somehow it’s Republican, somehow it’s been Democrat.

GUTFELD: It is what Juan believes.

WILLLIAMS: No. The truth is the truth. And somehow Donald Trump tells an on-going lie that has damaged our country, threatens our Democracy, and people are saying, this is too threatening to us as a society and you should not use our platform to spread lies.

GUTFELD: What are the lies that should be banned? What are the lies that should be banned?


WILLLIAMS: Right now — right now, you have–

GUTFELD: Who is going to ban the lies?

WILLLIAMS: You have Liz Cheney being forced out because she won’t buy into the lie.

GUTFELD: You should ban that, too, Juan.

WATTERS: All right, Juan, you’re out of line.


WILLLIAMS: This is crazy, what is going on with the Republican Party?

GUTFELD: So funny it kills me.

WATTERS: Juan, no one can hear what you are saying, but you’re wrong because Facebook actually banned Trump because it actually broke their protocol that you can’t praise people who are committing violence because he called the people on the 6th patriots. It wasn’t anything about fraud or anything like that. That was a technicality. The audience knows the truth.


WILLIAMS: It was lie. It was a lie.

WATTERS: We got to go.

WILLLIAMS: And that’s what’s happening to Liz Cheney right now.

WATTERS: We’ve got to go, why are you, man? Let’s relax, buddy.


WATTERS: Kamala Harris said she is taking the border crisis very seriously.


MONTGOMERY: We can all breathe a giant sigh of relief over the crisis at the border. Everything is better, you guys. Vice President Kamala Harris claims she is finally taking things seriously when she is not blaming the surge of migrants on climate change.


KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a priority for our nation and a role that I take very seriously. We are focused on addressing both the acute factors and the root causes of migration.

There are the long-standing issues, the root causes. And I am thinking of corruption, violence, and poverty, the lack of economic opportunity, the lack of climate adaptation and climate resilience, the lack of good governance.


MONTGOMERY: It’s amazing because it’s easy to grow drugs even when there is a climate lack of resilience. Juan, she’s talking about corruption, violence, and poverty as root causes, Juan. These are not root causes, these are actually effects. You can sit around for years and stroke your chin and claim you are getting to the heart of the issues by talking about root causes, but she is not really talking about any root causes here.

WILLIAMS: I’m trying to understand and make sure I get what you’re saying, because it seems to me like she is 100 percent right, you know, just on the face of it.

When people, you know, feel like they are not safe because of violence in their country, when they feel there is no future for their families, you know, they — why else would they decide they are going to walk 100 miles with an uncertain future and drag their children along with a backpack? Those are desperate people. And of course when you have the environment degraded and people can’t farm, can’t rely on a supply of food, they’re going to be desperate, Kennedy

MONTGOMERY: They are farming, lots of farming.

WILLLIAMS: I think that what you’re seeing right now–

MONTGOMERY: The narco-terrorists are making sure there’s plenty of farming because they are growing plenty of drugs, and the government are enriching themselves.



WILLIAMS: Oh, what I was going to say is I think that what we see going on right now in places like Venezuela, the level of violence and disruption — what I say, to me, this is pretty obvious. You have desperate people and she is speaking to a root cause and trying to allow, and speak the idea that if we can make those places better and safer, it helps not only those people to stay-at-home, it helps us as Americans because oftentimes those are our neighbors.

MONTGOMERY: They are our neighbors and they are in need and they are in very desperate situation, I will absolutely agree with you on that. The root cause is the drug war. So, Greg, Vice President Harris is visiting Milwaukee, Wisconsin, a lovely city to talk about infrastructure, when it’s the immigration system that is crumbling. Why is she so unserious about this issue?

GUTFELD: I think we are kind of figuring out that she may not be a serious person at all. I think — I think that they were counting on a learning curve where she would be moving more quickly to take over the job. And then, in the next year, I don’t think they are going to be able to do it.

The issue here is why they talk about climate change in these root causes is because you can’t fix it. Not in your lifetime. They don’t expect her to do anything but repeat these platitudes and these catchphrases that we’ve heard for years from the Dems.

The Dems have two clubs in their golf bag to beat you with, race and climate. They don’t have to rely on data. So instead what they do is they do, if you want to be harder on immigration, tougher on immigration, you are a cold-hearted bigot who hates the earth.

That’s what you do because then you don’t have to actually talk about facts. Remember the game 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon where you can link every actor to Kevin bacon? Great game. Now, we have two games, 6 degrees of the climate apocalypse or 6 degrees of Hitler. You are either going to get one or the other from a Democrat. They are either going to try to link something to global warming or try to link something to white supremacy because they are scared to death of actual data.

MONTGOMERY: So, when you are talking about actual crises, and I would say, Dana, that what’s happening on the southern border, what’s happening on these countries, both of them, the root causes and the immediate surge are both crises.

So you put the Vice President in charge of that, like we saw with the pandemic crisis. There was urgency there. There was a need to get vaccines made, and have them quickly pass through the FDA, so you can save lives. That the kind of urgency that we need to see on the border, when are we going to see that, what will it take?

PERINO: I would imagine, just to be very cynical, when their poll numbers crater to the point that they realize that it’s going to hurt them in the election. I mean, that’s probably when you might see something. The interesting thing about the climate thing is it is a global issue, they call it global climate change. But what is the difference between the people who are fleeing at places where they are living and those places that are not having anybody try to flee?

It is rule of law and governance. That’s a big difference. And obviously, there are some countries that are going to be able to adapt as slowly. But to Greg’s point, he’s absolutely right. And the administration admits this. No matter what we try to do we are not going to be able to solve a global problem, when China is building the coal fire power plant a week.


PERINO: That is not happening, so it doesn’t matter. But the other thing I want to point out very quickly as there is another huge crisis in El Salvador and the administration kind of finds themselves a little bit twisted in between because what should they do?

In El Salvador, the strong man there has decided he is going to replace judges on his own equivalent of the Supreme Court and put in friends there. And that way, he will get decisions that are more in his favor. And now, the administration has said, you know, an independent judiciary is very important. Really? Well, that’s great to know because — so, hopefully that means that your idea of court packing on the left is going to be chucked out the window.

MONTGOMERY: Yes, absolutely. That is — that is a different form of court packing with the same results. So, Jessie, I’m just trying to tap into your mind, before the 2020 midterms, do you see this administration returning to a robust wall along the southern border and some of the migrant protection protocols reintroduced?

WATTERS: Maybe about 25 percent just for window dressing. But, Kennedy, I think we are missing the point, it’s not just climate change anymore, it’s a new phrase, climate adaption and climate resilience. We are getting into the intersectionality of phraseology now.

Juan, I mean, if it’s really about the climate, is she going to argue that the sea levels are rising so high that coastal villages are fleeing to higher ground? Because that’s not happening and that would be a lie, or is she saying it’s now 10 degrees hotter in Guatemala and people are fleeing north to colder climates? Also not happening. But if it is, just explain it like that.

And Greg nailed it, climate change and racism is just a lazy deflection from having to actually argue on the substance. This whole thing was triggered by Biden’s policies and his rhetoric by promising amnesty and asylum and entitlements. But we love cocaine in this country.

GUTFELD: Tell me about it.

WATTERS: Cocaine doesn’t come in through Miami anymore. It comes in through Panama. And they have the Panamanian, the corridor, that’s the biggest drug highway right up through Panama, all through Mexico. And the drug cartels just wreak havoc.

And a lot of violence there, destabilizes a very tender region. And it’s not just cocaine they are involved in, they are involved in avocados, tourism, people say on the left, oh, I like my coffee fair trade. I don’t want these big corporations involved in my coffee. Ok. Who do you think controls the peasants that are making your fair trade coffee? It’s the cartels.

PERINO: Yeah, narco-terrorists.

WATTERS: Fair trade coffee is cartel coffee. That’s exactly what it is. So if — if you really want to do something, it’s not climate resilience, its cartel resilience.

MONTGOMERY: That’s actually right, Jesse. That’s a great point. We should have fair trade cocaine. We should have it grown and manufactured legally in these United States.

PERINO: So as Starbucks.

MONTGOMERY: Well said. Starbucks it is. That would pick me up. Up next, paying people not to work. How Joe Biden’s socialist agenda is crushing businesses. That’s next.


GUTFELD: Try to make sense of this. Joe Biden wants to bail out struggling small businesses that can’t find employees while at the same time paying Americans not to go back to work.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our nation’s restaurants were some of the first hit and worst hit. We can get our economy back on track by helping hundreds of thousands of small businesses reopen and stay open. And we can give the people of this nation a fighting chance again.


GUTFELD: Thanks to enhance federal unemployment benefit, some Americans are making more money by staying home. And many small businesses say they haven’t been able to find workers to fill jobs for months.

You know, Dana, my mom had an old saying. I think she coined it. She said why buy the milk when you can get the cow for free, or is it why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Either way, Joe Biden is just hosing down America with a lot of milk in the shape of dollars. Nobody wants to buy the cow.

PERINO: No one is buying the calf.

GUTFELD: No one is buying the calf.

PERINO: Your mom is so wise.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

PERINO: I love her. I love her. And I should think big fan of THE FIVE. I will tell you the fact that the laws of supply and demand still applies to the Biden administration is really coming through.

The — on “AMERICA’S NEWSROOM,” each day this week, we’ve interviewed a business owner who cannot find workers. There’s a guy today, a third- generation of restaurant owner who can’t find enough people and they’ve had to close early. They are not able to grow their business. They’re not even able to keep the business that they have. And this after trying to stay in business over this past year.

So, it’s just adding insult to injury. I think the governor of Montana has done a really bold thing and a smart thing and it’s innovative. He has said that they’re no longer going to do the enhanced unemployment benefit. They are going to do a $1,200 payment if you come back to work, but no more of that enhanced unemployment. And I think that, you know, if that works — it can maybe work in Montana. I don’t know if it will work everywhere. But that would actually help people be able to employ folks.

The other thing I mentioned, Greg, is there was a job fair down in Atlantic City. They wanted to hire 150 workers, big casino, 20 people showed up total. That was it.

GUTFELD: Well, that doesn’t seem like much of a fair, Dana. You know, Juan, Dana does bring up a good point. It’s about incentives and disincentives. And when you pay people when they’re not working, that’s kind of a disincentive against work would you agree?

WILLIAMS: I think everybody thinks unemployment benefits are pretty good thing in America, Greg.

GUTFELD: Everybody?

WILLIAMS: And you know, the enhanced benefits that we’re talking about are $300, $300. So, we have some anecdotal stories about this. But there’s no statistical evidence that giving somebody $300 in enhanced unemployment is stopping them from going back to work. They just — you know, I mean, to me, Americans aren’t lazy.

I think that what we’ve got here is tens of millions of Americans who did get the enhanced benefit who are already back to work. So, maybe we’re talking about, you know, jobs, people have moved on, the economy is booming, new jobs are opening up. Maybe people are doing better.

GUTFELD: What do you think, Kennedy?

MONTGOMERY: No, the actual — the evidence that you have is the business owners that data is talking about, 42 percent of them say they’re — it’s impossible to find workers. So, if you think you’re going to go out and have a great summer and go to your favorite bar and restaurant, you will. It just going to take two hours to get through lunch because there won’t be enough servers and busboys and chefs to keep these businesses afloat.

So, people do a very simple cost-benefit analysis. If I go out and look for a job, I will bring home less money. If I sit home and accept this unemployment insurance and some of the benefits from the various COVID relief packages, I will make more money. That’s what people do.

It’s not condescending. It’s not taking a dim view of human nature. It is basic economics. And that is exactly what’s happening and it is going to hurt small businesses and eventually, middle-income earners will have to pay more when wages go up on naturally.

GUTFELD: Yes, Jesse, if you go to any restaurant, you talk to anybody that manages there, they tell you the same thing. They have — they have employees that aren’t coming back because they don’t have — they’re — some are actually making more money than they would if they were at the restaurant.

WATTERS: You remember Luigi for my wedding, dynamite on the dance floor?



WATTERS: Right. Il Posto Di Joey out in Huntington, great spot, he is now short busboys, hostesses, bartenders, and waiters going into the busiest weekend of the year, Mother’s Day weekend, because if you’re working at his place, you take home $1,000 a week. But you could also get paid $800 to sit home on your couch and not work.

People would rather sit home on their couch and not work, he’s saying, and even leave that extra $200 on the table. And that’s a huge problem. Not only does it hurt the small business owners, backbone of the U.S. economy, but it hurts us the consumer because restaurants aren’t going to be operating at full capacity, and that means you can’t get a reservation.

One of the best things of the weekend is calling, hey, I’d like a table for four at 6:00 p.m. They say yes, Mr. Watters, we can accommodate. That is the best feeling ever. It’s so satisfying. Not the most satisfying, but it’s up there.

GUTFELD: Do you use your actual name?

WATTERS: And you’re not going to be able to get that — what?

GUTFELD: Do you use your real name?

WATTERS: Yes, I do.

GUTFELD: Oh, geez.

WATTERS: Yes, I do. And I — and I checked my food to before it’s served to me.

GUTFELD: All right, coming up, Dr. Fauci defending CDC mask guidelines for kids at summer camp that others are calling cruel.


WILLIAMS: Cruel and irrational, that’s what some experts are saying about the CDC’s guidelines for kids going off to summer camp. According to the rules, masks must be worn at all times by everyone including vaccinated adults. The only exceptions are for eating and for swimming. Children are not allowed to share toys and they must be at least three feet apart.

Dr. Fauci admitting the guidelines are harsh, but he’s still defending them.


ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I wouldn’t call them excessive, Savannah, but they certainly are conservative. And I think what you’re going to start to see is really in real-time continually reevaluating that for its practicality. Because you’re right, people look at that and they say, well, is that being a little bit too far right now?


WILLIAMS: Kennedy, what do you think? You know, are these rational, he said, conservative precautions for kids, should your kids get vaccinated, that’s going to be the next step?

MONTGOMERY: No. One Harvard psychologist said that, you know, this is essentially very harmful for children. It is just virtue signaling. And the people who are making these rules, my biggest problem is these bubble dwellers don’t have kids in summer camp. And they also don’t have small businesses. And these are two areas where they’re affecting people’s lives to such, such extremes.

A much bigger concern at summer camp is lice. But we don’t need federal mandates for that. They say you have to wear masks at all times unless you’re having trouble breathing, your unconscious, or you’re swimming. So, kids are going to play dead or they’re going to stay in the lake all summer. 700 kids die a year from drowning, only 277 from COVID. All of those are tragic. But let’s be smart here. This is ridiculous.

WILLIAMS: All right. So, Jesse, shouldn’t we spend time protecting kids, making sure that you know as many people as possible are vaccinated including kids?

WATTERS: Sure, Juan. But I don’t even think you believe what’s coming out of your own mouth. Do you realize how hot it gets in July around here? I walk outside, you walk outside, you live in the swamp down in D.C. You’re sweating like an animal when you walk two blocks, and you’re walking.

Now, my daughters are going to be running at full speed, high noon, humidity index off the charts, and you want to put a mask around their face? They’re going to be fainting during Capture the Flag and hitting their heads on a rock. Is that what you want? Do you want my daughters hitting their heads on a rock, Juan? Of course, you don’t.

Now, obviously, this is ridiculous. And Fauci knows it’s ridiculous. That’s why he thinks it’s going to get walked back like next month. But if you really want to stop this nonsense at the CDC, just get vaccinated. Counselors, just get vaccinated. Parents, get vaccinated. Then you won’t have like, Phantom of the Opera camp sessions with kids hitting their heads on rocks.

PERINO: It’s awful.

WILLIAMS: Wow, that was interesting.

WATTERS: Yes, it was.

WILLIAMS: So, Greg, all these attacks on Fauci, who do we trust if we don’t trust Fauci on the virus?

GUTFELD: Well, he’s not a leader. He’s a bureaucrat. So, he’s just — he’s just trying to cover his butt. The guidelines for the camp, they’re not harsh, they’re anti-science. The three main — the three main guidelines are completely wrong. Three feet apart, we debunked that. Surfaces of toy – – like not being able to touch others toys, we know you don’t — it’s not spread on surfaces. Masks outside, we know that’s bunked. All of this stuff is anti-science.

If you fall — it is — what he’s doing, he’s just covering his butt. And you know, he should read the room and maybe take some time off from TV. He’s on — he’s on TV more than I am. And the more he says, the less impact he has. He needs to pick his spots, rather than pick every spot. I mean, he actually did “WATTERS’ WORLD.” Can you believe that? I mean, the number one expert actually did “WATTERS’ WORLD.”

By the way, you want the camp — you want the camp to make a lot of money?

WATTERS: That’s a strike against him.

GUTFELD: You want to make a camp — have them — send kids to a camp where they’re deprogrammed after this year of suspended animation where you teach them how to make eye contact, and how to chew with their mouths closed, because you’re going to have a lot of screwed up kids. You’re going to need a camp that teaches them how to be human again.

WILLIAMS: All right, so Dana, what do you think?

PERINO: Well, first of all, I am all for a camp to teach kids to chew with their mouths close.


PERINO: That’s one of my biggest pet peeves in the world. OK, very rarely in my professional life have I ever wanted to just take something over. I am — I just almost desperately want to get down to the CDC and say, I’m in charge of communications now and everyone is going to listen to me. And I’m going to use that White House voice I used to have and get everybody organized, because it’s so frustrating.

Part of this also has to do with camps being worried about liability. So, maybe one of the things is if you want your kids to go to camp and the camp wants to open, work with your lawyers and figure out a way to have a waiver that says, I got my vaccine or kids got the vaccine, if it’s available to them, and we’re not going to sue you if anybody comes out of here with COVID.


PERINO: Fine, then everybody can go and actually make their own decisions. I think — I still think this all goes back to a lot of people being worried that they’re going to get sued. But if you have the vaccine, it gives you that freedom to be able to say breathe in easier now, and that means no masks on kids so that they don’t hit their head on a rock.

WILLIAMS: We love Jesse’s kids. All right, Caitlyn Jenner is sitting down with Sean Hannity tonight for an exclusive interview. A special preview for you is up next on THE FIVE.


PERINO: Caitlyn Jenner is sitting down with Sean Hannity tonight for an exclusive interview after announcing she’s running for governor of California.


CAITLYN JENNER (R-CA), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I want to take that same fight, same spirit, go to Sacramento, surround myself with some of the smartest people out there. I am an outsider. I understand that. The smartest people out there, because now I’m going to race for solutions.

I need to find solutions to be able to turn this state around. I absolutely love this state. I’m a fighter, always have been.


PERINO: Kennedy, I can’t remember — like, were you in California the last time there was a recall? It can get pretty wild.

MONTGOMERY: Yes. I hosted a game show called Who Wants To Be Governor of California with Mary Carey and Gary Coleman and others. And Mary Carey won. She is an adult film star. She might be running again. It’s going to be a very colorful cast of fringe characters.

But I think Caitlyn Jenner has a real chance here. And she’s running on a very smart platform, and that is sort of rediscovering the California dream. Everyone who lives in California knows what that means. They live there for a reason. And she’s talking about limiting government, lowering taxes, ending the lockdown. That will resonate with angry people who want Newsom gone.

PERINO: Greg, what will the left do now?

GUTFELD: They’re going to — they’re going to be quite confused, right? As much as I adore Sean Hannity, and you know that I do, I am boycotting — sorry, girl-cotting Caitlin’s appearance because she ghosted me. I was very — I was an early supporter. We texted back and forth. Now, I’ve not heard a thing. And she runs to Sean as an intersectional cisgendered male with an anxiety disorder and a third nipple. I am offended.

PERINO: Well, Jesse, will she be “WATTERS’ WORLD” too?

WATTERS: I just — does Gutfeld really have a third nipple?

GUTFELD: I call it the (INAUDIBLE).

PERINO: That would scare me.

WATTERS: Yes, that would scare just about anybody. So, I saw Caitlin’s ad that came out and she’s framing herself as a compassionate disrupter. So, like Trump, but with empathy. I assume she has the same kind of populist vibe that the ex-president had. And Kennedy is right. It’s all about rediscovering that California dream in California, the American dream, and we’ll see if it sticks. I just can’t wait to see the debate between Caitlin and Gavin. That will be must-see TV.

PERINO: Yes. I mean, Juan, are you going to pop some popcorn for that one?

WILLIAMS: Oh, I think, you know what, cable ratings will fly high, Dana. But as a political movement, this one is going down fast. With her as the focus of the media attention in this recall business, there’s no threat whatsoever to Gavin Newsom. Already, most people in the state say they don’t want a recall and his ratings are way above water at this moment.

PERINO: I don’t know. Maybe we’ll get Gavin and Caitlin to be on the “GUTFELD!” show, exclamation point, and Jesse Watters, maybe “AMERICA’S NEWSROOM” too because we’d be interested. All right, “ONE MORE THING” is up next.


WATTERS: It’s time now for “ONE MORE THING.” Go ahead, Greg.

GUTFELD: Well, first off, Scaramanga was obviously the name of the villain from A Man with the Golden Gun, the Bond movie. He had three nipples. Played by Christopher Lee. It’s fantastic. Let’s do this. Greg’s Guessing Game.

OK, here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to watch part of a video. I’m going to stop it. You need to guess which cup has a pile of dog food underneath it. The left one or the right one. I think it is now stopped. All right, let’s go around the horn here. Jesse, left to right?


GUTFELD: Left. Dana?

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Right. Kennedy?


GUTFELD: Right. Juan?


GUTFELD: All right, let’s see. Roll it. Oh, little food. There you go, on the right. Disturbing little animal. Did you know that’s a cat? Did you know that to a cat?



WATTERS: All right, that’s just — it serves me right. I should never have gone left. Let’s do the feeding frenzy Cinco de Mayo edition. Well, happy Cinco de Mayo, America. I got my burrito right here from Summer Salt in Union Square. And I also have burrito insurance. So, if I’ve had too many Coronas, or cervezas, or whatever I drink on Cinco de Mayo, and I dropped my burrito, I can get a free burrito through DoorDash or Cholula’s. You just use the code burrito town and DoorDash will send you a $20.00 coupon for a free burrito.

So, I think this is a good deal. Again, do not feed this to your dog like this also like Liz Warren. unwrap it and then feed it.

PERINO: That’s right.


PERINO: OK, so, you know, I love to read. Dana’s book clubs love to read, but I started when I was a kid. And I just got this set of books. I got to recommend them, especially if you are a city dweller, you got to get your kids these books. This is about Roadie the Ranch Dog by Scott Haynes. And this just delightful to go through this book and see what it’s like to, you know, move cows, get the — you know, have the dogs and the pickup and all that.

So, you can find them on his Web site, I believe. I thought that — yes, it’s here. I love them. It’s great books. There’s five of them. Don’t miss them.

WATTERS: Delightful, indeed. Kennedy.

MONTGOMERY: Great illustrations, too. I have a big Cancel Special coming up tomorrow night on Fox Business 8:00 p.m. in the East, 5:00 in the West. Cancel This! featuring Dee Snider and a guy who was canceled and fired for cracking his knuckles. It’s going to be a wonderful extravaganza. So, please come to the Kennedy Show, Cancel This! tomorrow night 8:00 p.m.

PERINO: I mean, you really shouldn’t crack your knuckles.

MONTGOMERY: Well, you can’t get fired by it.

WATTERS: Yes, I’d cancel someone for that. All right, Juan, take us home.

WILLIAMS: All right, so you’ve heard of a barrel full of laughs. But what happens if you can’t get out of the barrel? Yes, that’s what happened. It’s no laughing matter at all. Look at two-year-old Dorian. That’s right. He’s trapped in that wooden barrel. It was an antique that he was playing with while visiting his grandparents.

His mom went to the emergency room. The doctor did an X-ray of the barrel. Then they use the power saw to create a hole in the bottom of the barrel so that his legs could come through. Once his legs were through, they pulled him out the top.

PERINO: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: That was a wonderful thing but no barrel of laughs.


WATTERS: Scraping a bottle of beer.

PERINO: Greg, stay away from those barrels.

WATTERS: That is it for us. “SPECIAL REPORT” is up next with Bret who has a former Defense Secretary on the show tonight. 

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